Is there anybody out there?

[rolly_wood]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xACgZnt1wBo

Where are you? Never seen a so long lasting silence ........   

[Roby]

I'm here.  Been scanning the forum avery 6 hours or so for the last 2 days, but since my life is boring I was waiting for somebody to post something I could reply to.

[jaurand]

Roby,

Me too. Although listening to Mom swear while trying to solve a tray puzzle was almost comment-worthy.

J

[rolly_wood]

My life is boring too, ... scanning also some italian wood-forum but they're discussing about "macro" woodworking, furniture etc... very few people interested about puzzling  

[lynn p]

I am still here too.  Check every day to see if any new post have been made.

[mike toulouzas]

you see i new something was going on .Thats why i post before WHERE IS EVERYBODY.and all this is after the  IPP. I suggest to get a grip design something new play with puzzles and share again our fellings about it.Eveything else like money and glory just prevents that to happen.
OK. ihave something to share....Today among other i cut on my band saw a piece of palmwood.Just once.Then i tried to cut something else and the blade was useless. .Ihave never seen anything like it.It is the densest wood in the world 1200kg m3  :oOther than that i am going to make a cube with very precious woods.including  palwood, mopane, pistachio, bocote, ebony,pink ivory and others.My idea is to be so nice that there would be no resist to it.
over for now..

[gibell]

Hey Rolando!

Why not post more photos of your meeting with Bernhard?

Did you get my email?

[rolly_wood]

Eveything else like money and glory just prevents that to happen.

Hey Mike, probably we have also to consider that puzzlemaking is, for someone like me and many others, not the main job. For others instead it is the main source of gain, and they need to defend their ideas, because they are their "salary" ... sorry if my thoughts are expressed so roughly.
Concerning myself, my "glory" is to share ideas here where there are the best designers and puzzlemakers of the world... what else may I want more? 

Hope that this silence is due to some temporary circumstances and discussions may return frequent as before...

PS if you are not resisting, post it  , we will be happy to see it! 

Hi George, happy to hear again from you......
simply because Bernhard took the photos and presently he is in Tuscany.... I have no other than few shots... Bernhard will post them I am sure.
No I didn't please use my home address (it is in my profile, you should have already used it)

[Roby]

Sorry guys.  I would post more pictures of my current project, but I have not really accomplished much more.  They look much the same now as they did in the pictures I posted a few weeks back.

Also, I am just curious, how many others on this forum besides myself actually make puzzles for a living.  I know most of those on the fourm make puzzles.  Some of them also sell these puzzles for extra money.  Is there another artist on this forum that makes puzzles as thier main job?

I can certainly understand the need for such artist to protect thier work.  A puzzle artist can spend weeks designing a new puzzle, and that time has to be included in the price.  If another comes along and reproduces the same puzzle, they could sell it for less becase the designing part is already done, and all of the pices are already measured out for them.  Also there is a supply verses demand aspect, and more identical puzzles in the market lowers their value.

However, I personally do not feel this same way.  I do not see puzzlemaking as a business (even though it is my main source of income)  The moment that you see puzzlemaking as a business you cease to be an artist.  I am happy when I can find somebody who is willing to reproduce my work.  It is an honor to design a puzzle that someone else wants to make.  So far, only John has been willing to remake any of my puzzles, but I would love it if someone would make copies so some who don't have my puzzles could have one.  Someday, I hope somebody will remake my elephant puzzle.         

[rolly_wood]

I wish to apologize with everybody, in particular with you Robert, if my words seemed to accuse somebody.
Actually they were intended to have just the opposite meaning. Simply to say. as you agree upon, if someone (not referring to anyone in particular) makes this activity for living it is understandable he had the need of protecting his ideas.
Nothing more.
I do not know how many artists there are here doing this as main job... I really wanted just to write something... how can I  say... aimed to "detente", since I have the impression of a strange "climate"

This form of expression (forum) is prone to misunderstandings even having the full control of the language... imagine without it.
In this case I wanted to spend some words in favour of professional puzzlemakers and it seems that my words sound as against them

I said to myself many times, it is better to limit my messages to geometry ..... as I told Johan about math: no chance of misunderstanding either the result is right or not.

Sorry again

[Canuck]

No need for any apologies Rolly 

I've been preocupied; first serious health issues with Barb and now I managed to pick up a cold...

I agree with Roby, when he said; "I do not see puzzlemaking as a business (even though it is my main source of income)  The moment that you see puzzlemaking as a business you cease to be an artist."   

[Roby]

Rolly no need to apologize at all.  I thought it was the perfect subject to get people talking on the fourm again.  I am glad you brought it up.  I like that your contribution to the forum is more than just geometry, and this is a good subject.

My point is that I can see both sides of the issue, but for me personally you can't treat any art form as a business or you cease to be an artist.  Then you become a businessman, and the artistic value of the product suffers.  I suppose that we are actually in agreement on that. 

Like a lot of you, I get irritated when I hear about an aritst who will not permit somebody to make thier own personal copy of their design.  That is an honor that they are missing out on receiving.  But I also get irritated when I hear about somebody making a profit off of the work of an artist.  It all comes down to the intention of the person who wants to remake the work, whether it is done out of respect for the artist or for thier own selfish profit.

Rolly, you did good work by bringing the subject up.  I really enjoyed having the opportunity to respond.  No offense here.



 

[jaurand]

Roby,

Here's a question for you - what about somebody who makes copies of another artists work not to sell, but to give as gifts? The line gets blurry pretty quickly.

Another question - what about a slightly modified design? Where does the idea stop being the property of the original artist, and become something new?

Tough questions - especially for someone who wants to start making puzzle boxes.

I always worry that my ideas aren't original enough, or that I'm stealing from someone else. As a result, I start adding on and end up with ideas that are too complex, too clumsy, and downright unachievable.

J

[akbar24601]

Roby,

I think you made an excellent point in your last post on this subject! True, there are some out there so vane and arrogant as to never want to share with anyone. But, I think for the vast majority sharing is not an issue in any artform and it is wonderful to see the new expressions that come from it. However, it is the exploitation of that artist/artform that typically has to drive people to secrecy! Sadly, it boils down to a lack of integrity that typically destroys community

[Chinnomotto]

I'm baaaack!

Good pointers Jeff. Another one is when you buy 2 puzzles from the artist now , like my Stickmans,  and sell it your spare 5 years later and quadriple your profits, the artist gets nothing, except the satisfaction that it appreciated in value over time

I know many of us treasure what we have, but sooner or later they get sold, be it when you kack it, or hard times, or that degenerative son, or grandson down the line. Also gifts become dust collectors, or unwanted items  down the line, they get sold

My views of copying , always mention the artist first, and that yours is a copy or an improved variation. Ethically, permission should always be obtained, especially if you sell, otherwise its "Look what I bought from Ebay long time ago, and am selling Now!" Bottomline  is how  thick  your skin is , and how well you sleep at night,,,I sleep like a log!

Lastly, you spent weeks designing and getting ths puzzle working, only to find out some dorky has  already  made the same thing long time ago,,,,now you have to modify it,,,,man, that sucks

I sell,  mainly to break even this hobby addiction, and its also good for my ego. The profits goes back to more exotic woods and machines and new puzzles. As long as you enjoy what you are doing, I  guess